Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

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Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Jwh » 16 Jan 2019 16:53

Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP


Ok, for a long time I was learning about global changes after 6.0 update. There are really much of changes in mechanics which cardinally change game process and my understanding of balance itself.
I also found many interesting things could be used the way – to completely balancing at least 1v1 PvP.
1st of all you need to know that my suggestion will NOT make effect on any of global balancing changes applied for !aion (like healing boost bonus nerf), it will be only applied for 1v1 PvP.
Its great advantage I guess to apply it for !aion. But anyway in some sense it will be ‘’global’’ too.
That’s why I need to explain all info the best way, to make it understandable for staff and for players.
My post will be really huge. Il try to use simply examples and I will try to show my subjective opinion, if you disagree – so reply and tell me what Is wrong.
I hope you will find it interesting and after reading you will understand all what im going to say.

Current DMG formulas

Magical

PVP_Final_Dmg=((Matk+PVPatk-Mdef-PVPdef)/1000*base_skill+ingame_skill)*0.26*1.25*effects.
PVE_Final_Dmg=((Matk+PVEatk-Mdef-PVEdef)/1000*base_skill+ingame_skill) *1.25*effects.

Physical

PVP_Final_Dmg=(Patk+PVPatk-Pdef-PVPdef)/1000+1)*base_skill*0.26*1.25*effects.
PVE_Final_Dmg=(Patk+PVEatk-Pdef-PVEdef)/1000+1)*base_skill *1.25*effects.

Lets check about all the values in formulas.
1. Effects – probable buffes which boost your dmg directly. Like bards ‘’Wind harmony’’ or rangers ‘’Focused shots’’. Multiplier of such buffs counts as sum of % bonuses (if you have few buffes on you same time).
For example sorcerer with ‘’Boon of flame’’+’’Wind harmony’’ will have 1+0.15+0.15=1.3 multiplier.
2. Value of 1.25 is activated shards. There are certain bunuses of shards disabled for !aion but directly boost of skills is applied. That means activated shards increase whole dmg for 25%, that’s why we have got additional multiplier of 1.25.
3. In PvP formulas theres 0.26 value. Its global PvP multiplier.
4. Ingame skill – dmg in description of skill what you see on your screen.
5. Basic skill – skill dmg according to databases. For that value - bonus of main class characteristic is not applied.
For example bard got 110 knowledge, is main characteristic for bard. That means Basic skill value will be like for 110/100=1.1. You will see in description x1.1 value of its basic number.
Bards ‘’Sound of Breeze’’ - ingame dmg is 1023. Dmg according to power book or simply counting is 930.
More detailed 930*110/100=1023. You could check.
https://aionpowerbook.com/powerbook/Skill/4420
6. Matk/Patk, PvP/PvEatk – its your character characteristics.
7. Mdef/Pdef, PvP/PvEdef – its your opponents characteristics.

Conclusion about info above

That all above is simple. Formulas too. There are also a bit more accurate formulas including rounding of values, but we don’t need it. Anyway when I tested it – ive got mistakes like 16 points of dmg for 50000 points on screen. Its not so much.
Lets check formulas more detailed way.
After all calculations the whole formula is simple multiplier, except skill – its random value.
But for understanding it better lets imagine skill is the same all the time – lets imagine skill value is constant too.
Il explain on example of magical formula. For physical formula it works same way.
We will see that (Matk+PVPatk-Mdef-PVPdef) part in formula makes final effect on dmg you deal.
Difference of all that stats make multiplier – Final.
Also we could see that PVPatk/def is just same as Matk and Mdef. But bonus works only for PVP.
Example: 1000 PvP additional attack is the same as +1000 Matk when you attack another character…
Example: Debuffes works same way, if you reduce someones MDef for X it’s the same as your Matk is increased for X while target is debuffed.
Now lets imagine defencive characteristics of your opponent are constant value too.
So if your Matk stats will increase – it will increase like +1000 Matk = +X% to the whole your dmg, +1000 more – again +X%, but don’t forget – only in case when defencive stats of opponent are constant (mean if your opponent will change sets from common pvp to more defencive set – bonus will be different, but mechanics of counting of that bonus - still the same).
Example: 1000 more Matk will increase your dmg for X%, 1000 more – again for X%.
In case when opponent use more defencive set – 1000 Matk will increase your dmg for Y%, 1000 more again for Y%.
Also its easy to see that X%>Y%.
That all is simple too. And It was just like preparing for the main part of info.
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What is Balance for me?

Since like very first updates of aion we had decent rules for 1v1 PvP. Decent mean rules for both players, to make their chance to win PvP almost the same, to equalize the chances. Also with that non-public rules players used to different stigma builds depends on class against them. Lets be fair – 1v1 PvP sucks now, its much worse as when 5.8. Let me explain why. Its all cuz to my opinion, when Koreans started to rebalance aion, they started from the poin of very high defence for most of classes. Next updates like 6.5/7.0 they boost dmg a lot. Its good I guess and they are on the right way, but they need really much time for it. Also many players wont to w8 so much, that means as long we w8 as lower would be online and finally even !aion will be dead. Anyway one day people will be tired of mostly group PvP – unfortunately now it is the main part of !aion gameplay. That’s why I think its time to balance 1v1 without w8ting something great from Korea, specially if we really could create a strong foundation now, at least for 1v1.

Lets look on few types of players we have got on !aion

1. Noobs (im not going to humiliate someone, I'm just stating a fact) – such people always crying out on injustice of fate for their class, they are always unhappy of what they got.
2. Top players – its people who have really high ‘’skill’’, who could impartially evaluate how strong their class is and who could maximize its capabilities in PvP.
3. Ordinary players – something between Noobs and Top’s, not bad and not so good.
4. Strong one players – are still not enough good for being Top, but much stronger as Ordinary ones.

What do we need for balancing 1v1?

Lets answer one simple question and make conlusions.
What is fair PvP? - As for me its when both opponents got equalized chances to win, when you will start duel and don’t know who will win.
That’s why 1st problem is we haven’t such non-public rules and decent stigma builds for PvP.
Its not hard to create that. It will be 1st point of balancing.
Lets imagine we already have it.
So what do we need more to balance PvP?
Sure we have to boost every class dmg to the point when PvP would be fair. But how to make it without any changes which make effect for global !aion ones? – Its 2nd point of balancing.

Important Info

I wan wondered when after 6.2 update I visited Jotun. There are relics which boost your atking stats as fuck. Also as heal classes got reduced HB in that instance. That’s why we could make conclusion – its possible to create items or smth like that which directly boost your atking or reduce healing stats.
Since !aion 6.2 we have new gear. That one new gear is the point of balancing PvP too. Special feature of that gear is we could choose additional stats. Now players are focused on to make their gear as much defencive as possible (by adding Mdef/Pdef/HP/HB stats as mandatory stats) and to boost their gear up to the max potential in dealing dmg (by adding Matk/Patk/Crit/Mcrit stats as mandatory stats). Different stats could be mostly only cuz players got different manastones setups.
You should also remember that different types of gear got different defencive basical stats. Like for example Templar got more basical Pdef bonus but less Mdef bonus in his gear, other way for any ‘’cloth’’ class.
That also means, according to info above, that particular bonus what you gain from certain number of atking stats – will be different against every unique class.
Example: If you are bard (or any mage class as well), 1000 Matk more will increase your dmg for X% against gladiator, but it will increase your dmg for Y% against sorcerer. Also X% is not the same value as Y%. Its all cuz base stats of gear are different.
All of that is going to the constant defencive and atking stats almost for all characters on the server.
So with all of that info about gear – if all of the players would have maximum boosted gear (as for dealing dmg, as for defence) what would we have?
We would have constant basic gear stats for every class.

Suggestion

All of that info above, about stats, means that with constant defencive basic stats for both opponents – dmg in pvp could be CONTROLLED with buffes.
I suggest to add such an NPC-buffers for recharger, for every case of 1v1 PvP (gladi vs Templar/gladi/sin….). Different NPC for ‘’every’’ class against ‘’every’’ class. They will boost character stats for different number of Matk/Patk. This way we could create something like artificial boost of dmg for each class for balanced PvP.

The way how to make it happen

Theres no exactly procedure to make it happen just step by step. We should combine of what opportunities we’ve got.
I will try to show my vision how to do it.
1. We should create guide about how to create best gear for every class. I can do it myself, if suggestiong would be approved. This way we will make people to use it (fk cuz it will be rly usefull)
and we will get constant numbers of defence for every class. We will push away from that numbers when we will exactly boost dps for PvP.
2. Staff should create and add new command which would allow to boost your Matk/Patk or reduce HB stats as you wish (just for testing), it could also be available only for one location created for testing. If its not possible to create such an command – we should add NPC’s with different values of such buffes (its definitely possible).
To avoid using such buffes away out of that location – I offer to ban ‘’Return’’ and similar kind of ‘’Escape” skills/items for that location. The only way to leave it – should be .suicide and return to kisk, buffes also should be possible to remove or with death of character, or with ‘’hands’’ (not with dispelling skills, like SM’s or bard’s ones)
3. I think that from the players side its not right to always yell on staff to make them balance game as 1st ones want to. Thats why its time to allow them to decide what exactly 1v1 PvP they want. . I agree with my friend Puss words ‘’Harboe always wanted to balance !aion’’ and I think its not fair to put everything on him, players should help.
Also without players opinion and suggestions ‘’how to’’ its not possible even for staff to balance it right way.
After that while testing – players will be able and suggest to staff fair numbers of buffes for every PvP case, also as they will choose fair stigma builds for that.
For example, case Cleric vs Cleric, we know defencive stats of both opponents. We are going to boost their dps in PvP for example for 300%. With that formula features we are able to count for how much we should boost their Matk for such result.
Will it be ok for fair PvP? I cant say exactly, cuz its question for testing.
4. All of that info will be for another guide showing what is decent, and what you should use, to make using of that buffes fair. Also I could create this guide too.
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I should also tell you about what difficulties are coming if it would be approved.
1. We will need really much time to create such artificial balance, we will need much of tests and much work from the both sides (as players, as staff).
2. I wrote above about players types cuz its its important too. When we will test we should most listen to opinion about fair gear/stigmas of Top players (cuz all the time another players are going to ‘’copy” them). But for exactly values of buffes we should most listen to opinion of strong ones players.
Why? Cuz I think it will be better to balance PvP around such players, that means that buffes will give a bit more boost for Top ones cuz they can maximize that capabilities. But if we would balance around Top ones – it will be much harder for others to realize that boost capabilities. The whole situating in that case will be like when earlier updates. – Strong ones play as usual, strategies and other shit they use in PvP are ok, same time Top ones showing even better results using just the same.
3. Crit stones. When I tested trade-off of Atk and Crit stones, I can confidently say that for PvE – crit>atk.
But for PvP such a trade-off could make different unexpectable results. That’s why for such PvP we should or to ban crit stones with non-public rules, or ban it in shop as well.
Both variants are not so good cuz 1st one means players should have another gear for 1v1 PvP cuz of manastone setup. 2nd one mean that we will make players not to use crit stones away of that 1v1, like for example OW/BG’s etc. Im not sure but as Asuna said ‘’adding more crit to each class’’ plus such buffes ‘’we could create moster class’’. Nobody want that(
4. Kaisinel & Inc Updates. Don’t worry, I know very well Harboe wont to add this. But Kaisinel is the important shit cuz adding that morph means that classes with cast and chargeable skills will be much and much boosted. It will completely change all the !aion balance for all kinds of PvP’s. That’s why if my suggestion will be approved – staff should make a decision about ‘’we add/ we are not going to add’’.
Cuz after they add Kaisinel morph – we should make same and new tests for looking of ‘’best’’ values for balanced PvP.
Also Inc Updates like 7.0+ got different common balance, that means same and new tests too. So in case of approving – staff should decide if such a new update coming soon – maybe it would be better to hold over such balancing up to the very update.
5. Also there are much skills like glad’s berserk with 100% crit, or sin’s ambush dealing like 18k dmg. With boost of dmg it could be like one shot skills. Its not time to talk about how to fix such skills for PvP, again without global changes. But cuz much of info ‘’how to’’ I will explain it if suggestion will be approved.

My part in making such balance

I realize, if I suggest something like this, I should try to do my best and to make all I could if it would be approved. But unfortunately for few reasons like soon moving to another city I will not be able to spend so much time to control such a procces of balancing (from my side), same time im ready to do my best and to help with all what I could. Also ive been talking with Asuna about all of that, she said she could help with NPC and if another GM’s would help + Harboe approve this suggestion – we could try.
Anyway whatever of staff will choose (to approve or no) I think it’s the best way to make 1v1 PvP really cool.
So what do you think?
Last edited by Jwh on 22 Jan 2019 20:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby puss » 16 Jan 2019 21:25

Completely agree with phrase: "Decent mean rules for both players, to make their chance to win PvP almost the same, to equalize the chances. " If there is at least a little way to do this, it has to be used. Even if we will not get expected results or 100% BALANCED PVP, we probably could get some improvements, what will change PVP in a better way.

Rebalancing dmg is common important thing to do, but there are also possibilities to adjust some skills( change their cooldown, effect time, range...), add some global buffs or even new skills, what in perspective could give effect.

!aion is not only a place where u being fully drunk, or under marihuana, or under effect of prohibited strong drugs, hanging with ur friends. It's a place where u can develop urself, train ur brain and make ur soul stronger. It's a place where u finding not only trollers and masturbators, but intelligent, friendly and funny people. Place where u r not feels like fucking lonely throatcumming bitch, but a member of big enthusiastic community.
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Jwh » 16 Jan 2019 21:57

we should w8 for ''god's'' reply^^
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Miz » 22 Jan 2019 19:52

That actually pretty smart argue compared to just #save pvp without expose any fact , i mean if i didn't lose hope about game at all i should argue a lot but , just saying if any of your suggestion get allowed ,i totally agree with that anyways but i doubt about harboe side well .
no time for amateur
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Jwh » 22 Jan 2019 19:57

Miz wrote:That actually pretty smart argue compared to just #save pvp without expose any fact , i mean if i didn't lose hope about game at all i should argue a lot but , just saying if any of your suggestion get allowed ,i totally agree with that anyways but i doubt about harboe side well .

Well thx, but it doesnt change the damn thing Harboe ignores all of that above.
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby roygbiv » 22 Jan 2019 21:59

I think harboe is tired, this server last for 8 years. Just bringing old verison back can save notaion and pvp, people wont come back cus balance, they arleady know how 6.2 bad is.
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Meysos » 24 Jan 2019 03:12

Give aion 4.8
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby Cybertonic » 24 Jan 2019 14:33

Yea. Since some from here play in server have 7 or 6.5 is boring that new patch agree .For god guys move on with same shts 3 month's in row .
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Re: Suggestion of Re-Balancing 1v1 PvP

Postby ahmedtag » 13 Feb 2019 15:05

Why is the bard that wields Over 151545478 gears Talking about pvp Balance ?!
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