All-new Battleground Matchmaking

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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby HexHaXor » 06 Jun 2016 20:08

nice brain.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Faidroth » 06 Jun 2016 20:28

Nice changes, I will return to check 'em :)
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Seagate » 07 Jun 2016 16:33

@Harboe
Thank you, your keen concern for every facet is very impressive, not to mention your prompt solutions to the problem.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby keykeykey » 08 Jun 2016 01:00

so i waited and did a bunch of solo queuing on 3 diff characters with different rating spots (none are support class fwiw).

my character in the top 10 only gets into about 25% of the bg's, and almost all of those are the solo entry ones. furthermore, out of those, it seems to heavily weigh towards 1v1 bg's - which kinda sucks.

that being said it's def. noticeable that you almost never see teams w/support vs teams w/o support anymore which is very nice.

if i could make a recommendation, it would probably be to maybe implementing a nerf to the rating priority for people who are solo queuing. i think it would be a nice benefit in that it would encourage more solo queuing in general among people with higher ratings and hopefully get solo queue people into bg's more consistently.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Dei » 08 Jun 2016 01:24

keykeykey wrote:so i waited and did a bunch of solo queuing on 3 diff characters with different rating spots (none are support class fwiw).

my character in the top 10 only gets into about 25% of the bg's, and almost all of those are the solo entry ones. furthermore, out of those, it seems to heavily weigh towards 1v1 bg's - which kinda sucks.

that being said it's def. noticeable that you almost never see teams w/support vs teams w/o support anymore which is very nice.

if i could make a recommendation, it would probably be to maybe implementing a nerf to the rating priority for people who are solo queuing. i think it would be a nice benefit in that it would encourage more solo queuing in general among people with higher ratings and hopefully get solo queue people into bg's more consistently.

Would be great if you included info such as which server you play on, what time you did the BGs (tell us your time and timezone) so we know if the problem is on our side or if you were trying to join BGs at late night.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Harboe » 08 Jun 2016 18:35

Adjustment coming tomorrow

Due to the new BG matchmaking having a harder time matching high ranking players, it has become difficult for these players to do their daily BG's to avoid rating decay without allocating a substantial amount of time to it. That's an unfair side-effect of the new matchmaking system.

Therefore, from tomorrow's update, the requirement will no longer be BG's done, but BG entries attempted. That means, if you sign up on a round even if the system is unable to find a BG for you, it will be recorded as an entry attempt. I know that this opens up potential abuse, but it's simply too much to ask of players that they have to dedicate 2-3 hours per day to try reaching the daily requirement.

The number of BG attempts required as well as the rating decay numbers are unchanged and can be found here: https://forum.notaion.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7039

ADDED: Small adjustments to the internal weighting. Namely a reduction in the weight of the rating criteria and an increase in the weight of the team count criteria.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Darin » 19 Jun 2016 13:49

Something needs to be done about adding Bards to supp... getting entire teams of them, 0 balance what-so-ever. Kite, kite, heal. Them being unregistered as a supp class, makes them even more unbalanced now in BG's.
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elo hell

Postby hehehohuhahihehohoha » 25 Jun 2016 16:37

This is a follow-up comment on my previous post regarding matchmaking in BGs.

Currently the matchmaking system does not take alt/smurf/secondary characters into account. This creates super unbalanced matches when veteran players play BGs on their maximum geared characters with low rating. It happens even more after a ladder reset.
Although the matches would slowly become more balanced over time, the matches that bring balance are still ruined. I purpose a matchmaking system that takes alt/smurf characters into account.

My suggestions are:
-detection of veteran status on alt character (giving them a big rating boost in matchmaking)
-only process the rating of the highest rated group member in a premade (often times veteran players log on their alts so they get easier opponents, free elo)
-if a group is winning multiple BGs in a row (especially "big-not-even-close" wins like ~20 kills in a killcount or ~50 points in KOTH or 90% of kills in 4 team), give them a group that is higher rated. This scenario indicates that they are veteran players smashing noobs, and deserve to be put against other high rating groups
-rating needs to be a lot less of a criteria in higher rating. There is a 200 point difference between current rank 1 and rank 20. People at the top rarely get into any BGs because of the rating difference, even though there is no big skill difference, meaning the BG's would still be "even", but cannot be played because the system determines them as heavily unbalanced
-On rating decay/bg attempts: if you are on the top of the ladder and what to sit on your rating without risk losing points, simply group up with other high ranked players and queue for BG. you will almost never get into bg, and can so save yourself from rating decay.
-4 times in a row a group failed to get into a battleground, only because Rwina gm and Muted sorc logged onto their alts so they dont have to face them and could farm free elo for their chanter SU***
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Spartaque » 25 Jun 2016 18:41

hehehohuhahihehohoha wrote:could farm free elo for their chanter SU***

Fixed.

About suggestion, i think it's not gonna work the way you suggested. The problem with alt characters has always been here, people just wanna put someone down without any risc of losing what they already have. But i guess your idea with some "binding" would be alternative solution. For example, sorc A has high rank and has his alt sorc B on account with low rank, so he logs time to time to sorc B to have easy BG's (for w/e reason). In this case we can "bind" rank of sorc A to sorc B (without giving this rank to sorc B ofc), so he won't fight so easy BG's.
Here we have a problem with:
1) what if player has more then 1 account?
2) what if player is playing on another class to get another team down? how it should be counted?
3) what if player just wants to play for fun and not for raiting (without any trolls from another players or simply solo and undercovered)?

It's a very hard question to find right answer on, and i'm not sure something can be done, besides adaptation to system and its rules and use mirror effect (tho it will lead to top pussy premade teams to fight each other on alts :D).
Issues? Troubles?
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Drill » 25 Jun 2016 19:41

I notice being top 10 or lower will not even get u in a BG most of the time , can this be fixed ?
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Harboe » 25 Jun 2016 21:18

Drill wrote:I notice being top 10 or lower will not even get u in a BG most of the time , can this be fixed ?

Suck more.

On a more serious note, I think the suggestion with considering premades by the highest ranked member is a great idea.
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Drill » 25 Jun 2016 22:47

Harboe , I played today most duo queue for BG(few rounds as 3) ,playing just for fun not for rank or anything , but I find that unable to queue a bit too much (knowing Battlegrounds means alot for Notaion). Do I need to lose on purpouse or make another char just to know I will get in a BG :(?
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Dei » 26 Jun 2016 00:56

I guess the fix would be non-ranked BG queue... but that would split BGs.. and with the pop we have, it would be utterly bad. :s
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Re: All-new Battleground Matchmaking

Postby Harboe » 26 Jun 2016 17:09

It's not a fix when it makes everything worse :P

Anyway, the problem is not specifically that you are high ranked, but that it's almost always possible to create a better, more fair BG without you. And while it sucks, it's the truth. There's a large skill gap between casual BG players and the top. Same goes for the bottom, they also have trouble finding matches because they are so bad, they will drag their team down and cause them to lose in almost every case.

I think I'll be making a new criterion which bumps up your priority if you weren't matched last round or something along those lines. It won't make you get a BG every time, but if it's every second instead it's not too bad. You've probably not noticed that I increased the BG frequency from every 9-10 minutes to every 7-8 minutes. So you may not get into a BG as often, but more BG's are played possibly evening it out.
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Re: elo hell

Postby Mishat » 27 Jun 2016 04:53

hehehohuhahihehohoha wrote:This is a follow-up comment on my previous post regarding matchmaking in BGs.

Currently the matchmaking system does not take alt/smurf/secondary characters into account. This creates super unbalanced matches when veteran players play BGs on their maximum geared characters with low rating. It happens even more after a ladder reset.
Although the matches would slowly become more balanced over time, the matches that bring balance are still ruined. I purpose a matchmaking system that takes alt/smurf characters into account.

My suggestions are:
-detection of veteran status on alt character (giving them a big rating boost in matchmaking)
-only process the rating of the highest rated group member in a premade (often times veteran players log on their alts so they get easier opponents, free elo)
-if a group is winning multiple BGs in a row (especially "big-not-even-close" wins like ~20 kills in a killcount or ~50 points in KOTH or 90% of kills in 4 team), give them a group that is higher rated. This scenario indicates that they are veteran players smashing noobs, and deserve to be put against other high rating groups
-rating needs to be a lot less of a criteria in higher rating. There is a 200 point difference between current rank 1 and rank 20. People at the top rarely get into any BGs because of the rating difference, even though there is no big skill difference, meaning the BG's would still be "even", but cannot be played because the system determines them as heavily unbalanced
-On rating decay/bg attempts: if you are on the top of the ladder and what to sit on your rating without risk losing points, simply group up with other high ranked players and queue for BG. you will almost never get into bg, and can so save yourself from rating decay.
-4 times in a row a group failed to get into a battleground, only because Rwina gm and Muted sorc logged onto their alts so they dont have to face them and could farm free elo for their chanter SU***


Ok so basically, I made muted and Rwina log on alts because you're too low rank and we wanted to get against you, I mean, if you stopped being so bad at cleric (hello dearest ma love<3) you would stop losing= you would be higher on rating ========= They wouldn't have to log on alts.
oh and I don't care about my rating, mainly on my chanter lmao but I'm sure they were carrying me, I mean all I do is heal them while they rek you, even though it's not hard to kill you, don't blame me for your lose :(
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