Custom balance change: MR/Block

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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Zze » 18 Jul 2016 20:23

God !! That wall of ss , you could atleast resize to show them in the forum page but w/e . If melees socket Acc they gonna lose good ammount of attack which you need vs
4.6 defense cleric , and cleric can change to full hp and you are done . You have to inspect him on almost every 3 seconds .

This block/mress "nerf" its needed on !A , even more if there is a 2nd support to sustain the main cleric and the group aka ( Bards)
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Demonicsouls » 18 Jul 2016 21:32

As far as I'm concerned the Block/Mr nerf is required, especially for BG's. Some super imba crap used to go down that was a helpful reason such a nerf was fortified.
Using cleric as a main example as its what was provided (but the same can be applied to chanter in a similar way now perhaps - idk , haven't seen many epic supp chants these days and bards... need no comment):
While the physical side shows that indeed, an accuracy set can cover a single block cleric enough to do decent damage, it probably doesn't account for the max amount of block/mr a cleric can reach nor does it suffice for being able to kill a good healer in a BG where you are with randoms vs a holy trinity premade consisting of well rounded players. Clerics were and are walking fortresses, even with the nerf it requires a lot of effort to kill them (usually 2 man+ unless they're just bad). Having no nerf sentences randomly composed teams or premades with funky compositions to death vs any good premade, or stalemate Bgs if two good premades are put against each other (it also means that healers get the benefit of all this defence vs classes and still being able to heal astronomically well). Can you honestly say you wanna fight vs that nearly every BG, and actually win? I know for a fact that trying to carry 2 randoms (usually starter geared or clueless in my case, as a ranger) vs good premades is just fucking fruitless.
Dear conscience,

This game is full of idiots. Don't degrade yourself to their level.

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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Yenz » 18 Jul 2016 21:35

Demonicsouls wrote:As far as I'm concerned the Block/Mr nerf is required, especially for BG's. Some super imba crap used to go down that was a helpful reason such a nerf was fortified.
Using cleric as a main example as its what was provided (but the same can be applied to chanter in a similar way now perhaps - idk , haven't seen many epic supp chants these days and bards... need no comment):
While the physical side shows that indeed, an accuracy set can cover a single block cleric enough to do decent damage, it probably doesn't account for the max amount of block/mr a cleric can reach nor does it suffice for being able to kill a good healer in a BG where you are with randoms vs a holy trinity premade consisting of well rounded players. Clerics were and are walking fortresses, even with the nerf it requires a lot of effort to kill them (usually 2 man+ unless they're just bad). Having no nerf sentences randomly composed teams or premades with funky compositions to death vs any good premade, or stalemate Bgs if two good premades are put against each other (it also means that healers get the benefit of all this defence vs classes and still being able to heal astronomically well). Can you honestly say you wanna fight vs that nearly every BG, and actually win? I know for a fact that trying to carry 2 randoms (usually starter geared or clueless in my case, as a ranger) vs good premades is just fucking fruitless.


Absolutely right.
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Kyryu » 18 Jul 2016 23:31

It is impossible to have enough accuracy/attack to counter Health. HP cleric has to be countered by a heavy att spec because it can burst control :D

Stacking precision on the magic classes offers diminishing returns, therefore MR/Will builds are hard to counter. If the support uses elemental resist consumables it makes it even more difficult.

The remaining candidate for HB nerf is Knowledge (yes this should also be applied to bards & chanters). They will simply stack up on magic suppression while retaining damage and using hybrid builds. This will also nerf the godlike dps clerics as well as the bards, chanter can go on rampage with BoW if he is MB boosted and with his Elemental resistance it is very unlikely any caster will be able to take him down
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Spartaque » 18 Jul 2016 23:36

Kyryu wrote:It is impossible to have enough accuracy/attack to counter Health. HP cleric has to be countered by a heavy att spec because it can burst control :D

I didn't want to say anything, but remember, that you are talking about solo killing support in full health - ofc it's impossible (even with this nerf you won't kill solo good support).
But in group PvP support can be easily killed by 2 and more people with good focus and coordination (with or without nefr).
The main stream of tears come from the people who get rekt by zergs, and there you can't survive that much as you could without nerf. But Harb doesn't balance anything for Open World, as you know.
Kyryu wrote:The remaining candidate for HB nerf is Knowledge (yes this should also be applied to bards & chanters). They will simply stack up on magic suppression while retaining damage and using hybrid builds. This will also nerf the godlike dps clerics as well as the bards, chanter can go on rampage with BoW if he is MB boosted and with his Elemental resistance it is very unlikely any caster will be able to take him down

Can you teach me how to be a godlike dps cleric?
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Harboe » 18 Jul 2016 23:40

Kyryu, stop talking when you don't know anything on the topic.
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Kyryu » 19 Jul 2016 08:27

I have killed support clerics in the past even in 2v2 matchups both from my close range dd's and my casters even when having a support in my own team. The main argument behind my claim is that being unable to completely cancel out the block these supports can stack there is also almost no attack going for you to handle the added HP & pdef they got this patch, they simply escape with low HP & you have nothing left to trow at them & stop them from tossing a instant then follow up with a bigger heal

Now I am not saying: Hey I am unable to kill one of these supports from my potato geared Templar by myself so they should be nerfed, trying to give arguments based on my game experience,especially my burst control,and the mathematics working behind the damage system. I have also been playing block spec templar since 3.0 and I have a good feeling for the EHP one can expect from different % of block.

As for what I understand by godlike cleric: Burst management, kiting, use of root & dots while healing yourself and last but not least high damage bursts via instant skills. If a good cleric get's away from you with 1000 Hp he can pretty much deny all the damage you did to him in a couple of seconds. If you are Knowledge stacked you can do all that & keep your team up while retaining huge ammounts of msupp

People didn't look up for me just because I talk a lot you know. Used to be silent & just get things done once upon a time. It's not like you are going to duel one and try to burst him down, but that's one of the main ways I practice my damage burst over years of Aion. After all, my 100-0 used to be notorious & are the main reason most of the community used to know me. I've been good at this game before it got easy
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Harboe » 19 Jul 2016 08:29

What the fuck are you talking about?
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Kyryu » 19 Jul 2016 08:36

Edit: I forgot the nerf got re enabled for some reason. Most likely ran into a block or mr spec last night
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Oneuproad » 19 Jul 2016 23:02

A suggestion. I understand the nerf for the healers because of unfair setups in BGs in certain scenarios. However cannot this feature be disabled outside of BG? I mean in a situation of 2v5 or something like that, when your friends healing boost is super low due to MR or Block, it is not fair definitely as well. HP is not really viable in these situations as well due to the perma CC and then not being able to lower the incoming DMG significantly due to no MR or block.
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Harboe » 19 Jul 2016 23:13

While the nerf is definitely aimed at Battlegrounds, I'm of the belief that people would be too confused if such a drastic change only was in effect during BG's. Besides that, if you're outnumbered that heavily, being able to stay alive and keep your friend alive seems to be a clear indicator of imbalance.
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby 2sad4you » 20 Jul 2016 00:08

^ True ,Try killing Chanter / Cleric / Temp without the nerf in OW
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Spartaque » 20 Jul 2016 00:21

2sad4you wrote:^ True ,Try killing Temp without the nerf in OW

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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Oneuproad » 20 Jul 2016 00:58

Harboe wrote:While the nerf is definitely aimed at Battlegrounds, I'm of the belief that people would be too confused if such a drastic change only was in effect during BG's. Besides that, if you're outnumbered that heavily, being able to stay alive and keep your friend alive seems to be a clear indicator of imbalance.


That is about right, however i am talking about situations 2vs5 complete randoms, like just finding a random zerg, pack of enemies, obviously against better players it is still not going to work out. But i guess it is not going to change your mind about it. :D

2sad4you wrote:^ True ,Try killing Chanter / Cleric / Temp without the nerf in OW


Oh yea right mate, my healing boost has dropped way below 0 as a templar, it hurt right in the heals.
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Re: Custom balance change: MR/Block

Postby Zze » 20 Jul 2016 01:18

Oneuproad wrote:Oh yea right mate, my healing boost has dropped way below 0 as a templar, it hurt right in the heals.


FeelsBadMan , no more prayer heal .
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